Ep 70 - Scale Your Business Without Selling Your Soul with Abigail Brown

There's a moment in every business when you realise the way you've been working can't keep working. The harder you push, the smaller the world around you gets. The more you "scale," the less you actually live.

This week on The Flow Lane, I'm sitting down with Abigail Brown, a serial founder who has built and exited three values-led businesses, including the plant-based superfoods brand Sari Foods and the organic childrenswear label The Simple Folk. Today, alongside her sister-in-law Amy Wilson, Abi co-runs Rebrandr, where they're quietly pioneering what they call the Slow Business Model. Last year, that approach grew their revenue by 181%, and they did it while staying present, healthy, and very much in their own lives.

What I love about this conversation is how honest it is. We talk about the part of scaling nobody likes to admit, that the founders who reach the next level aren't the ones working the hardest, they're the ones who finally let go of doing it all themselves. We talk about why systems are the unsexy thing that actually creates freedom, and why most of us avoid them anyway. We talk about scaling without losing yourself, your team, or the soul of what you built.

If you've been quietly burning out trying to grow your business, this is the conversation I want you to hear. It's a reminder that there is another way, and that the women living it are already among us.

You can find Abi at rebrandr.co.uk or on Instagram at @rebrandr.creative.studio, and listen to her podcast The Slow Circle wherever you get your shows.

Work with Emma: https://go.flowstatescollective.com/soulful-strategy-session

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:00

We grew the business 180% last year. Wow. What if you could grow your business 181% in a year without sacrificing your health, your family, or your sanity? We're here at the home studio and I have a virtual interview that I've done with an incredible founder, and you're gonna get so much out of this. Abigail Brown is a serial founder who has built and exited three values-led businesses, including the plant-based superfood brand Sari's Food and the Organic Children's Wear brand, which I'm sure you heard because it went kind of viral, the simple folk. Now, alongside her sister-in-law Amy, she is running Rebrander, a brand and coaching studio where they teach what they call the slow business method. It's intentionally deliberate, anti-hustle, and deeply intentional, and the numbers that I just shared are theirs. Abby is also the mother of three who she homeschools alongside her husband, Dan. Means everything that you're hearing this episode comes from a truly embodied leader in the end and both. She's scaling a business and being present in her life, and it's not the first time that she's done it. Abby shares so many golden nuggets of takeaways. We're scaling a brand right now, particularly in the e-com space. This episode is for you. Welcome to the Flow Lane with me, Emma Mate. This podcast is for the female entrepreneurs who want the both end big goals and a life that you can actually enjoy. We're talking sustainable scaling, working in flow, and creating a business that supports your energy, not dreams it. Let's dive in. Welcome to the podcast, Abby or Abigail, whoever you like to be referred to. Fine. So you have done so many things on your entrepreneurial journey, different kinds of businesses, and now being on the other side of that with your own studio and helping other people. I would love to know. Can you share with us so we can start to understand your journey from building and exiting multiple brands to now founding Rebrander? How has all of that really shaped your definition of sustainable business growth?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah, that's such a good question. Thank you so much for having me, firstly. Um, and I feel like it has been such a journey. I could really just talk for an hour about this. Um, but if I kind of start by saying that I have, well, I said it just before we started, but I have two different degrees. I don't use either of them. I then went into um, you know, I've done, they say the average woman has, I think, five different career in her careers in her lifetime, and I've had three so far. Maybe, maybe this is the fourth. I'm not sure how you define it. Um, but I feel like what we're really good at is, or what I rebrander is really good at, and um the team Amy is the other half of rebrander, is kind of learning as we go. And that is very much that, you know, startup mentality was jump in and figure things out. So even though you know, our background started maybe our journey started 10 years or so ago with the first company, which was actually superfoods. It was before it was cool to have an acai bowl or add spirulina to your smoothie. Um, we did um superfoods, powdered superfoods in um like sold in pouches, and that grew really quickly. It was actually a huge journey around Amazon and how you know there's a lot of contentious issues around that now, but back then it was felt more like a marketplace for independent businesses. So that was where the journey started, and it was very much around like how do we build a brand through that platform? Um and we did it really successfully, it grew really well, and we a couple of years later started then a supplements company, um, which was a very different aesthetic, but then capsulated supplements. Again, before it was cool to have collagen and uh wild omega-3 fish oil. Um, we did that in a capsule, and that was also followed a very similar pattern to the previous company and um grew quite quickly, and then I would say probably a year or six months after that, the idea for the simple folk came, and it was very much reflected in my personal journey of you know, health and well-being from what you put in your body to what you put on your body. You know, your skin is your largest organ, and we absorb so much through our skin. And I had just had my second baby and had this whole awakening around natural fibres, organic materials, um, and started it along with another friend. And at the very beginning, you know, it's a it's a completely different ball game from the previous two businesses. If I always feel I always kind of joke that they were the practice runs, and then the simple folk was like, really, when you know, we hit Instagram at the right time, we were really, really good at building community. Um, and we created such a clearly defined aesthetic that people would see something of ours, whether it was a product or an image or an ad or whatever, and just know that it was ours, because what we were good at was taking the essence of it and weaving that story all the way through. Um and we learned a lot in all three of those brands. The first two during the simple folks growth, we sold, which was great. It kind of allowed me to shift my focus 100% into the simple folk. Um, and then you know, we were running it as a startup, excuse me, um and you know, problem solving as we go, because as always, things come up when you're growing a business. Um but we kind of got to the point where we felt like we we needed investment um or or something to allow us to get to the next level of growth. This is five years in. Um we were still, you know, we were multi-million dollar revenue, but yet we were still without a HR department, a finance department, a legal department, all of those things, which, you know, by the time you're kind of getting into the middle to top end of an SME size, you really need an infrastructure like that. Um, and you know, I would say that my skill set is up to that top level of that size, like beyond that corporate structure, I'm not actually really interested in it. Um nor do I have the background and skills in it. I'm good at scaling from the the idea up to that point. Um, and so we started putting feelers out there, and that's when actually it turned into a sale. Um, and now it's with a really incredible sustainable um into a sustainable infrastructure. But what has been really interesting about that is during the last year or two um of so I should add that Amy, the other half of Rebrandle, was the managing director at the Simple Folk. So her and I have worked together like all the way through, I mean, we were honestly, but our the way that we work is so symbiotic. Um, and we are both very left brain, right brain like equally split, but she maybe leans slightly to the left and I lean slightly to the right. So it's a really good fit, and we always describe ourselves as rocket fuel when we're together. Um uh however, you know, it took a lot from both of us to get the simple folk to that point, and so when it came to change hands and I knew it was time for me to step out, I didn't really realize at the time, but I had definitely was experiencing some burnout. You know, I also had three small children, I homeschool all three of them, we travel, like the and I made these choices, right? I'm so grateful for them. But it got to the point where I was burning everything at both ends, and I was the one that was the sacrifice. So this took me and Amy on, and she was similar, but you know, but but it took us on this whole journey around like what do we do next, and how do we do it in a way that doesn't mean that we are the sacrifice, but yet still brings us sustainable growth for the business. Because really, like we talk sustainability is a bit of a buzzword, right? And it can mean lots of different things. You can be talking about sustainable fabrics or sustainable production or sustainable, you know, anything really now, but the sustainable business to us is um a business that grows in a way that that is that you are able to then keep at that place of growth without sacrificing anything else, and so we've kind of coined this term slow business because we talk so much about slow food, slow fashion, like slow living, but yet when you put slow and business together, everyone goes, Oh, slow business, not sure I want that. But actually, all it means is like the same thing. It's like, what does slow travel mean to you? What does slow food mean to you? It means really consciously thinking about like where you want to go and what you want to do and and enjoying the process, it's not about the end goal, but it's about enjoying it as you go. So, anyway, I I kind of skipped a bit there because there was a portion at the end of the simple photo, you know, maybe 12 to 18 months of the last of my time there, where other people had been approaching us and saying, Can you help us with some mentoring or can you help us with um creative direction or with a photo shoot? And I am so passionate. What I learned through this was actually I'm super passionate about sustainable and slow fashion, but really what I'm passionate about is sustainable and slow business. And I absolutely love supporting other conscious brands, and I just feel like the world would be so sad if it didn't have people in it that were trying to build brands that leave the planet in a better place than they found it. So I would say yes, as and when I could. And by the time I stepped out of the simple folk full time, I had this incredible pool around me of like amazing clients, amazing brands. And so when we were thinking, what do we do? it was kind of a no-brainer. We were just like, well, let's make this official. So that's when we formed Rebrander, um, which is about two years into its official capacity now. Um, and what's really interesting is because of the place we had both come from with feeling kind of burnt out and um having been like um operating that way for so long, we knew we couldn't do that again. And it was not a choice, like we just didn't have the capacity. So we were like, well, we have to just do it this way, this way we're being called to, this slow business model. And it's really been kind of an experiment. But what's been really interesting is that by taking our foot off the gas, leaning into our core values, really trusting our instinct and making decisions from that place. So when people say you need to get your head down and you need to grit and you need to, you know, like it's so glorified this like busyness and this like determined. And don't get me wrong, that there are moments where that's required. But actually, particularly as women, when we soften and we allow those feminine qualities to guide us, because amazingly that's what they do when we allow them to, um, actually, what comes from it can can be even bigger and better.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Yeah, that is actually just so beautiful and so affirming to hear. There's a lot there that I actually want to talk about. I want to take it back a step first before we dive into the actual sustainable business. Did you always know? Because one pattern I'm noticing in what you're saying, you were able to spot trends and things before they became a thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Where do you think that comes from within you?

SPEAKER_00 13:12

And do you know? Yeah, I I have honestly I have no idea. I have always, I remember even as a child, felt like an alien. I was never interested in what my friends were interested in at the same time as them. I was always doing my own thing or doing something different. And um, you know, people say, How do you create the simple folk look? And there were so many times when I we would like hire someone to be brought in to kind of support me in that because I was still signing off on everything, even towards the end. Um, every Instagram caption, every Instagram image, like every email that went out, every image, everything. And and it's just a lot. But what I found so hard was that I you can't, it was inside my head. That was that was the way I see it, you know. And everyone jokes when they first come to our house. They're like, oh wow, your house actually looks like it's all on brand, you know. And it's so true because it's just I don't know how to translate that, it's just the way I see things. And you know, I'll be completely honest, and for a long time I kind of denied it. Um, but I was told when I was at university the first time that I was severely dyslexic, and I never had never known this, but I always knew I processed information differently to everybody else. Um, my husband kind of jokes that it's like Sherlock Holmes when you see the calculations going like, and and it's that's on I they would send me a sample for the simple folk, and I could tell by looking at it it was like half a centimetre L. And they'd be like, no, it's not, no, and then they'd measure it and see that it was. I just visually process information differently. And you know, like I said, for a long time I kind of felt like an alien, and now I think over the last 10 years I've learned that actually that's a gift. Um, and I'm I think my kids have inherited it, so I'm really trying to instill in them that it's a beautiful thing. Um, but it's true, you know, we hit Instagram before Instagram kicked off. So we grew with Instagram, and we hit the whole muted palettes trend 10 years ago. And what's so funny is that now I I like my friends come over and they're all wearing muted palettes, and I'm like, ah, and they're like, and it's like, I don't know, I've always we've always just been like a step ahead. And of course that helps in business because then if you can spot things before there's a need for it, but also sometimes you can be too early, and then no one gets it, and it and I feel like that's actually one of the things whenever I connect with other brands that comes up a lot, like they've got an incredible idea and there's a real need for it, and it's you know, something that's gonna have a really positive impact, but they're just a touch too early with it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

How do you judge that timing? What are you looking for in the marketplace?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Oh, again, I'm I'm not sure I've got something very helpful to say because I think it's intuitive, and actually, you know, we've been taught that business is this particular model of doing things. And yes, there are lots of success successful businesses that have followed that model. It's a patriarchal model, you know, business was created by men in a time before women were even operating, like before women even had jobs, you know. And so as women have done more in business, we're stepping into a pre-existing kind of structure. But actually, a lot of people and a lot of people think that matriarchy means patriarchy, but just with women, but actually it doesn't. When women come together, they tend to form a circle instead of a hierarchical structure. And I think by leaning into that and by being intuitive and just trusting your gut, you can you can tell when the time is right. Um, but so many of us feel like we have to have like really tangible evidence because that's the way business has taught us it, you know, you need to everything needs to be data supported. And and I and that's true, you know, there's a lot we can learn from data, but honestly, I think half the decisions I've ever made have been just trusting my gut, and they kind of have gone against the data in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

That's so fascinating, and I think such an important point for women, because it actually is a superpower that we have. And is that men don't have.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah. Well, if you think about it, men, like if we're going back to hunter-gatherer days, they would have their eye on the target, right? And they would be like out hunting and they say it was a deer, they need they could not take their attention away from that one deer because then they would risk not getting something to take back to the family for dinner. Whereas women were looking to the left for the berries and to the right for the nuts, and then and also take that one step further. Women would then gather all this stuff and go back to the tribe and then share it. And they'd be like, Well, I had loads of nuts today, and you have loads of berries, so let's swap some, you know. Whereas men resource guard a little bit more because that deer is for that family and they don't know when they'll find another, and they don't, whereas, you know, it's like it's just a completely different mindset. As you can tell, I get quite excited about this conversation.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

It's it's interesting because my husband and I run our business together, and it is exactly that. I come in with the vision or that I think we should do this, and you can see it sends him into such a spin because he's like, like I've just spent all this time setting up this framework or setting up this thing, and now you want to pivot? Like, are you serious? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, totally feeling that this is gonna do really well.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Yeah, for sure. And you know what though, like what a gorgeous example of when you lean into those patterns of masculinity and femininity, like how they can come together. And and it's hot, it's not always easy, right? It's like in a marriage. You have there's a point at which you have to trust the other person. And you know, there there are times with even though me and Amy are both ladies, there are times when one of us will take a more masculine stance, and because that balance of masculine and femininity is is within us all and it flows, right? Um, and some and it has to be balanced. So sometimes she'll I'll say something and her masculine will step in to kind of like counter me, or vice versa. Um, and I think that actually is a strength.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Yeah, I've noticed it. So my husband loves building custom GPTs. He's literally built me a custom GPT that if I have some idea, I have to tell it to the GPT and it will say if it is or isn't within it. Doesn't mean we can't ever do it, but it's like we we're sticking to our quarterly plan and it can go in our next discussion. Otherwise, I can be like, oh, I've had this idea and I'm really fast at executing, but then you end up throwing spaghetti around at the wall and you don't actually see things through, which doesn't scale. And that's the that's the part I'd love to hear from you is for me, in in all the businesses and the different models that I've been in that have actually gotten to that point of scale. I'm similar to you in that I don't love it when it then goes to that next level because I get bored because it becomes so system process dominant that I don't have that freedom of, I want to create this, I want to create this. So, you know, a couple of years in, I'm like, okay, we're rinse and repeating the same thing over and over again. And I get it because like revenue is stacking and da-da-da. But I am personally the creative behind, you know, let's what's the next thing? How did you harness that within yourself? Because, you know, you took these, how many years were you in your first couple of businesses?

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Um, that's a good question. I think the first one was probably five years. And then we started the next one two years after that. So three years with that one.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Okay. So, like five years in itself is a significant amount of time to go for something. I mean, you might have been introducing new products and doing things within that, but you're still working on that one project. But someone with a creative brain that takes discipline. Was there a mindset shift that you had to kind of embody or lean into when you started actually going from this is a good idea, this is getting traction, we're figuring this out to oh, we can actually scale this quite rapidly and grow internationally and you know, take this beyond just this fun idea. Was it a mindset thing or were you leaning into strategy?

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Probably a combination of the two. And I think, you know, you said some really key things where it's about creating your goals and sticking to them. And that is mindset, right? That's a determination. Um, that's a strategy in itself, but it definitely requires you to stick to it. And that's one of the reasons. I mean, you know, right, in mentoring, that sometimes people just need that accountability. They're doing incredible things, but like sticking to what they do. We're so like magpies as entrepreneurs. We see like the shiny next new opportunity, and we get excited about it, and that can distract us from what it is that we decided to do. And every time you get distracted, you're diluting your focus and your energy. So, you know, we created a framework. Obviously, you know, I'm an avid reader, literally, like a book or two a week, and I love learning, like throwing myself into a topic. But I'm like, so have you heard of the Colpe Index?

SPEAKER_01 23:00

No.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Oh, okay. It's really good. And it's amazing for when you're building teams. Um you should do it. I bet you're like quick start like me. Um, so it basically it's a it's it gives you a profile of how you take action. So I'm like 10 out of 10 quick start, which means that when a problem arises, I take action first and I think about it later. And it's that decisiveness, right? But then fact finder is my next measure, and I'm only half on that, which means I research all of the only essential facts, and then I don't get bogged down in the research. I just stop when I feel like I've got the essential facts. So that's what I do with gathering information. And so I threw myself into all these books and all these frameworks and like business approaches and like, you know, learning as I go, and from that piece together all the best bits of you know what I saw other people were doing. The best way to model to be successful is to model success, right? Um, and so I created my own framework, which very much aligns with what you were just saying. You know, we would start with a 10-year vision, then we would have a three-year plan, then 12-month goals, and the 12-month goals get you to the three-year plan, and three-year plan gets you to the 10-year vision, but then break it down into like quarterly goals and very much like hold ourselves accountable to that. So if a new idea comes up, saying, not right now, we're putting it on the list, and at the end of quarter review, we will talk about it for whether it becomes a priority for the next quarter. Um, so I think yes, there was strategy, yes, there was a lot of learning and research, um, but there was also discipline and mindset. And I would say that um as someone who processes information differently, I often like joke, Amy can see it on my face when we're talking. I let go. It's like one of those fireworks that goes off, and then all the little sparkles like I'm like, whoa, I don't know which one to chase first, you know. And she's like, I can see it when it's happening, especially when we're talking to a client because you've just had all these ideas, and she like steps in and's like, I just need to explain what's happening over here. But it's like, how do you not chase every single one? And I think what I love, because don't get me wrong, I'm not a corporate structure person, but I absolutely value more than anything else systems and processes. And what I'm really good at doing is over like high level, this needs a system, this needs to be standardized so that we can stick to what we know we're good at. And some creatives find that really hard. They want to try different things all the time. And but actually, it's a balance of where do we test new things, what do we like? Maybe pick one thing that quarter that you want to test that's new, whether it's a creative or a product or you know what have you, but everything else remains standardized because when you find something that works, stick to it.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

That and that in itself is a mindset thing of actually being able to stick to it. Like that's for me something I've had to work on so much in my journey because I used to be a chronic magpie. Yeah. And it's why I would only ever get to a certain level of success. Like there's been a lot of things early on in my entrepreneurial career that were amazing businesses and had huge potential, but I never saw them through because I was like, ah, sticking point next. Reflect it was the lack of systems and processes, which is why I talk about them so much now. And I'm like, this is coming from someone who does not love a spreadsheet. This is not my natural MO, but I see the validation in that, in that, you know, I write about this a lot in my book of flow actually needs a container. Otherwise, it's just a flood. Like if you think of a body of water, it's just rushing, it's all over the place. But when you have the banks of the river, beautiful, lovely stream flows.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Oh, I love that analogy.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Creatives struggle with it so much because we think creativity is ultimate freedom of expression rather than actually having that structure to create the freedom. I would love to know across your different businesses, and I guess now consulting with so many different brands, what are the systems, the structures that you actually recommend or help implement within a business before they actually take that next level of growth?

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yes. So before I talk about the systems, I think there's another key thing which is really worth acknowledging, which is you will not be able to grow your business to the next level unless you find a way to manage the things that are not your skill set. And that doesn't mean somebody else has to manage them. Like obviously, I we hit a barrier quite often with um budget. And I mean budget, not just money, but also time and energy. Like, what's your currency, right? Some people have more money than energy or time, or vice versa. And so it's often about like when we're talking to brands that want to scale and how they want to do that, quite often the jump to the next level is quite big and requires a big investment of either time, money, or energy. And what I always say is like, there are things that only you can do, that has to be you. There are then things that you couldn't do better than anyone else, but somebody else could do it. And then there are the things that doesn't do not have to be you and could be anyone, and you need to assess everything within your business along that barometer and outsource the things that do not need to be you again. It doesn't need to be a person, it could be a system, it could be a spreadsheet that organizes your accounts for you, for example. Um, it could be AI, really. I know a lot of people you are on the fence about AI, but if you're not using it to replace human in the way that only humans can be, it's so helpful in terms of organizing that little gap in all of our minds that are not that thing that we are particularly good at doing. Some people really lean into the left side and need support with the right, and vice versa. The other thing I would say is, you know, there is a there is a whole mindset thing here, which is like a whole other conversation around hiring people. And there needs to be that growth mindset. You need to not be scared and not, and as soon as you ask yourself, like, what if it doesn't work? That's fear jumping in. You need to just make that decision quick and hire someone to free you up to do the things that only you can do, if that's what's required of your next level of growth. And the gorgeous thing about sustainable business is that we get to decide what our own version of success is. There's no point having a huge revenue, you know, as I've said from personal experience, if you're burning yourself out in the process and you don't feel like you're being the best version of yourself or your kids, or or even some people have a huge revenue, chase revenue, but what's the profit, you know? So we get to decide what success is, we get to decide what the next level of success is and what we want and what we're willing to put into it. And then I would say equip yourself with the tools in order to do that. Tools being people amazing, incredible. I've been so lucky to work with the most incredible team of people, um, but also checklists, SOPs, systems that support you in that. So then to dive in a little bit more to systems, which I know was specifically your question. Um, I would say um every single thing you do needs to be systematized. And I learned this the hard way because everything was inside my head at the simple folk, and then I couldn't pass that on to anyone else. Um, you know, there there were occasionally people that got it and could do a part of it, but then they can't do social media plus emails plus photo shoot, you know. So it gets to a point at which if you are, if you want to, if you know you want to grow your business at the beginning, you need to start documenting what you're doing and creating a proven process for how each department or each area of your business operates, because it will get to the point where you are so swamped and you need help, but the idea of handing that over to anyone when you haven't figured it all out for yourself is so overwhelming that you kind of feel trapped in this paralyzed state. So I think creating um systems around that checklists are amazing. Um, having a checklist for, you know, if this email is going out, has this been checked? Has this been checked? Have the links been checked? Have you sent a test? Like all of and it sounds so simple, but actually, those are the things that allow you to grow because you can bring someone else in and you've created such clear parameters around this is the way we do things. And sometimes what's hard is bringing people back to that. Sometimes people want to get creative because obviously, when you're a creative person, you really appreciate that in another person. Um, but it is just about keep coming back to that template. Like, don't do a thousand different emails that look different every time. Create three templates: a product-based one, a community-based one, and then whatever else your business, like a third variation of that. Like, for example, we support um a regenerative farm, like recipes is their third model, because then like seasonal recipes based off the produce that they're growing. So then how don't vary from that. Like, that's your standard operating procedure. That's what works for you. And then you can just it takes the thought, the hard work out of it. Whether it's making it more streamlined for you to continue to manage, how amazing that you don't have to build an email from scratch every time you send one. You know, you just have these three templates that you copy and paste the information into, the picture, whatever, and you know they perform well because you've based it on what performs well. And if you do need to bring someone else in, all they need to do is just step right in to carry on managing that system, you know. Um, so it kind of sounds kind of simple, but I know to a lot of us very creative thinkers, it doesn't, it it's it is one of those things that you're like, huh? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

It is like it is music to my ears. And I know my husband's gonna be rejoicing hearing you say that because when we do our programs, he is the like the big driver of like the systems and the structure. That's his thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

And he's like blue in the face being like, Did you write that down? Did you at least make a loom? And it's hard when you're in the beginning, and this is why it's so powerful hearing this from you, from different, you know, e-com and different kinds of businesses, that that foundation is actually so important. And thinking about it early, that's the that's the key from what you just said then. Because I think a lot of people think when I hit seven figures, when I get to whatever the then we'll have a system. And it's like, no, you will have a shit show, and you will have to then spend time, your revenue will dip while you're spending time building the system that you could have just very simply put in a folder along the way.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

And you don't overcomplicate it. A lot of people go, oh, systems, like interactive spreadsheets, linking out. And we've had those, like, yes, the spreadsheet that links to um the tech pack for the product, like, yeah, like you can have complex systems, but it doesn't need to be. It can be the most simple thing, but documenting it is an important step. And for example, if you want to reach out, if you're a product-based business and you want to reach out to wholesale, we were stocked in 450 stores by the end globally. And we never, I mean, like we had the most incredible wholesale manager, uh, director of wholesale, um, towards the end. And um, she was amazing at building relationships, maintaining relationships, like connecting with new people. But we had so many people coming to us because of our branding, because of our like there was this FOMO around, well, they're stocking them. We want to, you know, and it just grew so organically. But we created a very simple four-step proven process. It fitted on like half a sheet of A4 paper, and it was just a four-step thing. Obviously, the four steps required like a few different considerations, but if you just ran through that, you and then went back to the beginning and ran through it again, like that that simplifies everything. And a lot of people go, Oh, I don't know where to begin. Like, how do I get? And it's like just just write it down and you can tweak it. You could, you know, a lot of business is making a decision and then going, oh, that didn't work. Let's try another one, making a decision. But the the the key thing there is make the decision, just take action, figure it out as you go. And a lot of it is trial and error, but if you're documenting it as you go, by the time you're done, you've got the tightest, like what's that like whatever I can't think of the expression, but like the golden whatever it is, you know, um, that it doesn't fail because it works exactly for your business and you've refined it over years. And then when you want to bring someone else in, or you want to this also what we haven't spoken about is the saleability of a company. If you have all of this in place, if you ever want to sell your business, then a lot of businesses that are looking to buy other smaller brands to plug into their existing infrastructure, what they're looking for is a pre-existing brand with all of this system of around like community networking, like you know, all of that is what gives your your branding. Um again, I'm missing my words, uh, gives your brand value. That's the word. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

It's equity, it's it's a big part of that process. And I think when you went into this on that note of sellability, did you go into your businesses with that with an exit plan in mind? You spoke before how you you you do your you know your 10-year vision and whatnot. Did you have an exit plan from the beginning, or was it a maybe we'll keep going, maybe we'll exit at some point?

SPEAKER_00 37:47

It was a maybe for me. Um, and actually, you know, quite often when you sell a business, you go with it for a while anyway. It depends on how you structure the sale. Um, so even if it was an option, I think I probably thought that I would still be there and doing it. Um so I never really had a plan to step out. But I also feel like when we do a 10-year vision, for me, the 10-year vision is not just about your business, it's about how your life will feel and look in 10 years' time. And so many times when people create the big picture, like of course, the the smaller pictures, the the quarterly goals, the 12-month goals, the three, they need to be um quantitative, um, and you need to be able to assess whether you're doing them or not, they need to be measurable, they need to be clear. But the 10-year vision, I feel like quite often where people go wrong with creating it is that it's so rigid, and then you you know, all the manifestation gurus out there say you you have to just surrender to the process, and you need to create this vision of what you want it to feel like, and then allow the universal God or whatever you believe in to guide you to that. And I feel like that's huge, and it's a huge, huge exercise in surrender. And in our modern way of living, where we have so much control over so many things, that can feel really hard. But actually, that's my probably number one biggest lesson through this 10-year journey is surrender, and sometimes things happen that you think, oh my god, it's going wrong, or like you know, something comes up that feels stressful, but actually, when you look back, it was always a stepping stone to a bigger and better thing.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

That hindsight 2020 vision saying. So, one thing you touched on there from a sellability point of view, and also you know, uh what makes a brand valuable and ultimately what creates sales community. Now, you were on Instagram with the simple folk, and it's funny because so you and I actually connected on Instagram for people who don't know the backstory. I think I commented on somebody's post and you commented on my comment, and suddenly we were Instagram besties.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

I mean, that's what's amazing about Instagram, right? The way you can connect with like-minded people, right? That's for sure my favorite thing about it.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Yeah, and but I I personally feel now from brands that you know I was a part of and ran 10 years ago, the community you were able to build, it was a true community-building platform. And I'm sure that, you know, as you said, you were on Instagram earlier, you rode that wave. Yeah. So I it's a two-part question. Firstly, how important is community?

unknown 40:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

And then how do you actually cultivate that? Like, how are you advising brands in today's modern landscape? Because, yeah, as you know, algorithms, all that stuff has changed. Does community have more or less of an impact over, you know, sales and then scalability and sellability from 10 10 years ago to now? And how how are you actually helping people to cultivate community in an online space that doesn't feel as authentic community-driven?

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's an amazing question. Um, so the first part of it, community is everything. So often people are trying to grow on Instagram, and what they're trying to grow is an audience, and that is not what you want. You don't want an audience, you want a community. You want genuine and authentic connections, and it is still possible. Like, look how you and I connected, right? And it is totally possible, but it's a lot more proactive, it requires a lot more energy and effort than it ever used to. And what I would say is, you know, a lot of people talk about branding as what a customer sees, and it is not what a customer sees, it is what a customer feels. What a customer sees is a part of what a customer feels. So, of course, aesthetics are important, but it's like one of like five key pillars of branding. And, you know, people would sometimes stop me in the street and go, Oh my goodness, you're the simple folk. Like, see the kids like dressed head to toe, right? Three of them in in in brown or whatever. Um, it's the beige kids. Yeah, right. Um, and they, you know, they would stop, and the first thing they would say was never, oh my goodness, your clothes are so cute, or um, they're so soft, or like any of these other things that I thought were the key things about the Simple Folk product, what they would always say was, every time I have an interaction with your brand, you are so kind and you are I feel so well looked after. And there is no more powerful branding than that. So when you are thinking about branding, like how are you making your customer feel? And it's not just customers that have bought from you, it's potential customers as well. And that's where we come back to the community on Instagram. Talk to everyone like they're your best and most valued customer. Always have the last word, always go out of your way to engage with their content, always like you know, make a beeline for that person and make them feel valued. It drives me nuts, obviously, knowing what I know. When as a customer, I reach out to a brand on Instagram and there's like tumbleweed in the weed. And I'm like, guys, you're missing a trick here. Like if you made me feel special, I would buy from you and I would keep buying from you, you know. So that's where community is really important. When you are thinking of it like an audience, it's like going to a networking event and just talking about yourself. Everyone will be like, oh, she's here again. She was here last week. All she ever talks about is herself. She never asks me how I am. Like, come on, we all know how what it takes to have relationships and have friends and like you know, live life in a kind and loving way. Like, let's just bring that into our business a little bit more, and it has such a huge impact. So that was very much our approach with the simple folk, and actually, that hasn't changed an awful lot. I think what people struggle with now, yes, the algorithm has changed. However, the algorithm is constantly changing, it always has done. And people think of it as like, oh, there's this big algorithm change that they like switched on at midnight, but it doesn't work like that. They're like obviously updating little bits like weeks and months and years as they go by. And what you have to do is if you think of it like they're a business too, they're a social media platform. We need to be social. The name is in the title. If we are just posting. Posting and then not engaging, or not actively like going out and looking for those community members, that's when your it's your stuff is not going to get shown because it's an algorithm that's a social one. So if you're engaging, then your content's gonna, you know, like you know this. And I feel like it it we overcomplicate it and we also get this like imposter syndrome where we compare ourselves to this huge influencer who's you know doing this huge thing, or um this other brand that's saying this. And the most powerful thing you can do in this oversaturated marketplace is lean fully and utterly into you and what you do that's unique, and we overthink that because we know us and we're inside our heads, but actually just being authentic, just being who you are and showing up on Instagram is the most powerful way you can build a community. But remember to everyone listening, it's not just about going to the networking party and talking about yourself. You need to treat it like an interactive thing. So I would say um those are probably the best things that you know, when we're when we're when brands come to us and they say, Oh, I'm just not really getting anywhere, like I don't, you know, like don't get much engagement, don't get much, you know, it's a case of okay, let's strip it back. Like, how much time are you spending on posting? How much time are you spending on engaging? And always it's oh, I put all this effort into a reel and writing the caption and then posting it, and then it doesn't get much traction, but they've they've done like no engagement, and so you know, I would say if it's way better to post less and engage more and build that community from actually going out and connecting on other people's accounts to try and keep posting and expecting your con other people to find your content. I always say to people like, be interesting and interested. Right. Because no one's gonna come to your house if you don't invite them.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

It's so true.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Yeah, it and it and it is really interesting. That actual, that as a strategy, I always get my clients to do that. I'm like, I want you to I break it into 15-minute kind of lots, like the 15 minutes that you spent writing that caption, I want you to go and find other creators and actually comment, not just good job, comment something meaningful on their like actually see something and engage in it, not from a, oh, how can I get more followers point of view, but from a like I think nowadays we see content that we find interesting and we just go, that's good, and don't recognize the effort, the energy that that person's gone into actually physically creating that. I am like everyone's biggest cheerleader. I'm like, yes, this post was like the the woman whose post I commented on the where you and I connected, her stuff is amazing. She puts, I can see how much, I mean, it's it's her job, but like she does it at a very high standard. And I'm like, I love the way you communicate. I'm gonna give you some engagement because that is a way that I can actually support you. And it's connected me with with you and with other people that are values aligned.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Exactly. And to go back to that point that we said before about like the women gathering the berries and the nuts, and then like taking it back to the village and sharing it with each other, like this is what we're good at. This is our skill set, is coming together and sharing what we have. But you know, we're also scared. And if you put it within the context of like the way business is done, everyone's resource guarding and it's from a place of like you know, being not wanting to be vulnerable. But actually, like if we can all just champion each other, then how much better would everything be? We'd be uplifting each other, we'd be like, and we would be the ones like making the noise on Instagram, right? Because we would be the most sociable. Um, so yeah, I think lean into leaning into that like feminine quality of like, you know how I mean, I don't know about your husband. There's a chat going on on WhatsApp at the moment where there's like six of us in it, and someone's going through a hard time, and um, me and Amy are like replying, and my brother's chipped in, and then my husband was like, Oh, I just don't know what to say. Like, it's been three days, and he's not replied once in this group chat. And he I've to be fair to him, he's been at work, he's been really busy, um, wasn't home until midnight last night. But I I was like, just say that, just say like, just wanted to let you know I'm seeing all your messages, I don't really know what to say, but I'm thinking of you. Um, and I was like, That's that's our that's what we're good at is like just being open and like connecting with other people, and and that like everyone says like women are good at friendships, like lean into that, treat all your customers and your community as your friends and find out how they're doing and comment or support them, and and you'll get that back because what we give out is what we get back.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

Yeah, I think that's such a powerful reminder for people. In that on that topic of you know, feminine business and feminine leadership, how did motherhood impact the way at what point did your kids come into the picture in your entrepreneur journey? And how did that shift things for you? I know you mentioned you know getting to that point of burnout and not being the mum that you wanted to be. Did it change how you made decisions? Did it make you sharper? Did you go through postpartum brain? Like, what was that journey like for you?

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Yeah, so I started this whole journey from the superfoods when Seth, my first, was six months old. And I just knew I couldn't go back to my previous job. I was breastfeeding, I like for me becoming a mother, a lot of people go like, oh, it opened my mind. To me, it allowed me to focus my mind, it allowed me to stop listening to all the noise around me, focus in on my intuition and just do, find a way to do what I knew I needed to do, and I knew how I wanted to parent. I I knew I didn't yet know the word for it was unschooling or homeschooling or world schooling or whatever term people like to use, but I knew that that was the way I wanted it to be. I wanted us to all be together and to learn and to build like-minded community. Um, and so, you know, and the way we wanted to eat and the way we wanted to focus on like non-toxic living. And I just knew that that was how I wanted to do things. I didn't know the details, didn't know how I was gonna do it, but it just allowed me to stop questioning and being and all the noise like creating static in my mind, and instead just focus on right, how are we gonna do this? So at that point, um my husband was still working in his career, and I was like, um, okay, so I'm gonna get up at five and I'm gonna work three hours until he wakes, two or three hours whenever, and then I will work again when he naps, and then I will put him to bed at seven and I will work again all evening. And I did that for years. I did that through the first two businesses, through having my second child. Um, and then I had a miscarriage in 2020, um, and it was a really traumatic one. I actually ended up nearly dying in hospital and being resuscitated. Um, but it would it like changed something in my mind. I was, and you know, often that happens, right? We go through a traumatic experience, and then we're like, okay, something needs to give. And so um my husband um was on a career break, and I started shifting to be like, okay, I'm not working in the evenings anymore. I'm I'm like putting the kids to bed, and then I'm taking a couple of hours for me, whether it's to have a bath, read a book, like whatever. And I stopped trying to sacrifice sleep. I was like, sleep has to happen. Um, and so I kind of went through this journey like over a period of years where um I like pushed through, and I'm really good at that. I'm really good at like tuning out everything else and just focusing, but actually, I probably didn't do myself a lot of service by operating that way, and that's obviously what preluded the burnout. Um, but in terms of of like being a mother, I would hire a new mum over anybody else because a new mum knows how to get stuff done, you know? Like you if you have a 15-minute window, you can achieve what the old version of me used to do in the child. 100% I'm so much more efficient. Uh oh, exactly. And so I'm like, you know, I will hire mothers over anyone else. And it was so beautiful at the simple folk and at rebrando, that's the culture we've created. You know, it's not unusual for us to have a conference call or a meeting where someone's breastfeeding. Yeah, because that's the way we want to do it. And there's this whole divide in our minds that really like I had this awakening when I became a mum and was managing business where I was like, that what this doesn't make sense to me, this whole like work-life balance. Like, I'm at work and I'm at home, and like that's stressing me out. Because if he doesn't go to sleep at seven o'clock, I'm losing my work time, and it's like, oh, you know, and I just suddenly had this awakening that that's not this isn't the way it's meant to be, not for women. Like it's a blend. Everything coming together is a blend. And when we see it as one life, then everything just feels a little bit easier because in our lives we know we have time with our husband, or time for ourselves, or time for the kids, or like time to exercise, or time to eat, and like all of those things fit in, and work is one of those things. And when you love your business, normally the most of the problem for entrepreneurs is feeling like they're not doing enough, right? It's like, how do you switch off from that at the end of the day? But when you start seeing it as this one like life where there are all these different elements, everything just seems to flow a little bit smoother. And you take these sort of, we compartmentalize in our mind all these different areas, but when we remove those dividers, um to me, everything just slotted into place.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Oh my gosh, I love this. And I just want to keep talking to you for like hours and hours. And you know what? I was just thinking of in my brain then as I was kind of looking over some notes of like, we wanted to speak about, you know, sustainable scaling and business and all these kinds of things, and it goes into motherhood, and that is the whole freaking point is that this push to seven figures, eight figures, scale at all costs, yeah, costs you. Like there's there, like everything is an exchange of you put energy in one thing, something else doesn't get that energy. And I think your story is such a beautiful lived experience of sustainable business.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

Right. And if you look at rebranding, I said we grew 180% last year. There is proof there. This was an experiment that I had conducted that I didn't know how it was going to play out, but I just knew I couldn't continue to scale at all costs. And so we stepped back and we allowed everything else to, and so there is another way for everyone listening who doesn't know like what do I do? Do I scale? Don't I scale? Or how do I scale, but still like retain the life I want, the quality of life I want. Like there is another way I've done it and it's possible.

SPEAKER_03 56:05

Wonderful. That is just like, yeah, it is music to my ears. And I'm so grateful that we've had your experience and wisdom to be able to share that because yeah, it is such a beautiful story. And I think I don't know if you've written a book, but I think you definitely should.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

I haven't, but you know, everyone says that, and I have thought about what maybe one day that'll go on the 10-year vision.

unknown 56:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

I think one thing that really has come through, and maybe you can speak to this as your final point, but something that I'm hearing in what you've said is that sustainable businesses actually they grow because they know who they are, not just how to sell or how to scale or how to systematize. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 56:47

100%. And actually, if we go back like to the step before you build out your quarterly goals, your yearly goals, your three and 10-year vision. And I whenever I we're working with brands and they say like this is what we want to achieve, and then we break down these like how do it steps to get there in the next quarter, this is what we need to do. Before we do any of that, we spend several weeks working with them on their core value, their essential truth. Uh uh, yes, sorry, their core values and their essential truth, because they need to know who they are, they need to know like that essential truth of what they're trying to achieve, and they need to stand so firm in it that anything that comes along that doesn't align with it just bounces off them because that slows down, right? It needs to be, and I think I feel like when you are so clear on who you are, your core values, and and you they are non-negotiables, you do not drop on any. I used to talk to people and say, you can decide how many to drop. You could like maybe say this one's compromiseable, but no, I've learned the hard way. Like, you do not compromise on your core values. Have seven to ten, and whatever they are, you do not compromise. Someone, whoever you work with has to align a hundred percent, and you have to be clear in your essential value, uh essential truth, and every decision that comes your way, bring it back to that. Does it match with your essential truth and what the goal of your entire business is? And if it's a no, don't do it. That's a magpie shiny distraction. And I think you stand firm in those two things and you are so clear on who you are, you light up like a beacon, and you literally clear all the shadows out the way because it only takes a sliver of light to make the darkness a bit lighter, right? And then you also attract those like-minded people and that like-minded community to you because they can see your authenticity. So many people talk the talk and don't walk the walk, that to actually be walking the walk in this day and age and this marketplace is what's going to set you apart.

SPEAKER_03 58:47

That is such beautiful sage advice. Thank you. Where can everybody connect with you? Where do you hang out the most if they want to come and see?

SPEAKER_00 58:55

Instagram, which is uh rebrander creative studio. I think it might be re rebrander.creative.studio. Um, and rebrander.co.uk is our website as well for anyone who is interested in working with us. I'll pop all the links below and you have your podcast as well. Yes, we do, the slow circle. Um, another another thing to mention.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And I'm definitely gonna have to get you on for round two because you have so much wisdom to share.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 59:26

We'll do it in person. I'll come to the UK.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

Oh, that would be so nice. Yeah, lovely.